Crafting a New Era of Apedom
That was an intimidating process.
ERIK WINQUIST: We love this.
To be nominated or to be recognized by our peers in the industry is huge.
Image via Disney
PAUL STORY: I just think it’s great for the whole team to feel recognized by the Academy.
WES BALL: They deserve it.
Damn it, this is the one, guys.
Image via Disney
This is the Apes movie thats going to get it!
Wes, I did want to start with you about signing on in your journey with this film.
BALL: It’s interesting.
I was really nervous about the mocap aspect of it all.
I had never done that before.
The thing that excited me the most was probably the world-creation aspect of it all.
Image via 20th Century Studios
I was like, Oh, that would be fun!
I’ve been playing in that visual space for a long time.
And, of course, all theMaze Runnermovies play in that same kind of space.
Image via 20th Century Studios
But it was fun to be able to do it, make it a real character in the movie.
That was an intimidating process.
But some of the funnest stuff was honestly watching the magic trick unfold for a year in post.
Image via 20th Century Studios
It was really fun.
Really, true movie magic in the best possible sense.
Before I dig into those details, I do want to jump into Make Wes Blush time.
It really is something else.
WINQUIST: You’re right, which basically meant every conversation became a lot easier.
We didn’t have to get into, What I mean when I say whatever.
Image via 20th Century Studios
I think there was just a huge amount of trust.
All that kind of stuff.
You’ve seen what this film is going to be, and it just gets everyone so jazzed.
Image via 20th Century Studios
They never tell you about the leeches.
Anyway, it was a huge amount of fun.
Do you want to add anything about Wes?
Image via 20th Century Studios
STORY: Wes makes the process fun.
BALL: Thanks, guys.
I did want to follow up on something that I heard you did, Erik.
Image via 20th Century Studios
Can you run us through some key points that were high priority to convey in that video?
WINQUIST: The video is what was touching on earlier.
It was having the actual material from all three.
Image by Jefferson Chacon
BALL: Like film school.
I think they do, but it’s a big, giant team effort.
Let’s get into some specifics now.
Image via 20th Century
You already mentioned that you learn each step of the way.
That doesn’t work in the sunshine when you take it outside.
BALL: Running through the forest.
So, over the years, that became more and more robust.
This time, now, it’s all really streamlined.
So that’s that’s one aspect of it.
The other thing is the actual capture technology itself.
So by doing that, we’ve just got such a greater view of what’s going on.
BALL: Thats whats wild is that people are wearing computers.
Theyve got all these computers.
Theyve got this battery computer system on their back, and the batteries are constantly getting replaced.
So it’s unlike a typical movie that you could imagine.
Thenthe real magic happens when we actually pull it in and apply it to the characters.
Pauly should talk about some of the facial solver stuff.
SoPaul and his team have to go and animate this stuff by handand not pull you out.
Hopefully, you believe that they’re real.
But thats just a base pass.
STORY: And a lot of that comes through the eyes.
A majority of the emotion you read through the eyes.
So just having the eyelid a little bit higher or lower can really change the expression.
or even just a head angle to the camera can really change your expression.
BALL: Its hard to impress upon you guys how subtle this work really is.
We would go through shots like, Theres something thats not right.
There’s something that’s not working.
Suddenly now it feels real.
It’s amazing to watch how well they know their stuff.
BALL: I’m sure you guys all kind of heard before: Ape school.
Wed do this for weeks and weeks.
I never saw this at first.
It was very weird.
You have tobean ape.
So it has to become such an internal process that you’re not even thinking about it.
It becomes second nature.
They would all come up with their own body language.
I’ll see just a skeleton, the plot points essentially of all these little markers around their suits.
you’re free to’t see the actor.
Anaya is a good example.
You see him in the movie, and he’s always holding his left arm like this.
So now, as he grew up, he still has this weird little thing.
They really, really embraced that.
A lot of credit goes to these guys.
Who would want to follow Andy Serkis?
So he had to come into this thing and never wane.
He was brave and courageous and just committed to this thing.
I couldn’t be more proud of them.
With or without VFX, Andy Serkis is an incredible performer.
I just want to be greedy.
Do you have another example?
BALL: Not off the top of my mind.
I’m sure if we keep talking.
[Laughs]
I could hear about that kind of stuff all day long.
BALL: There was tons of that.
There’s no button that makes that happen.
It is sheer effort by a lot of people.
That’s why they deserve the Oscar.
WINQUIST: Tell us how you really feel!
Ill broaden this question for the three of you.
DANIELLE IMMERMAN: Talking about their performance, their performance was essential.
What I think about is on set, they couldn’t see themselves.
They might have seen a couple of sets, but they haven’t seen themselves moving.
There was a moment when Noa sees his dad and hes passed away.
BALL: When he says, I will find them.
I will bring them.
We looked at that shot for months!
That’s the character.
You didn’t question it.
So it was like, Make everything look like that!
How long does that take?
[Laughs]
Thats such a beautiful example.
BALL: Koro, Noas father.
I mean, it is a leap of faith.
I’m gonna trust it.
And Erik kept saying, Don’t worry, it’s gonna be fine.
That was a huge surprise for me.
I was like, Oh, this is going to work.
BALL: You dont notice when youre looking at him.
Shifting his eye down, you went, Whoa, there he is.
BALL: He’s in there!
WINQUIST: They saw their son on screen in an ape performance, which is really cool.
It’s very, very impressive.
BALL: Theres 33 minutes of 100% full CG in the movie.
That kind of magic trick is really hard to do.
There’s fire in the movie and most of the fire in the movie is all CG.
That alone is like a, Don’t go there, guys.
The water, for crying out loud!
So, we had a small little river for the river sequence.
It’s all CG.
I think thats a testament to your work.
WINQUIST: You see I’m talking about, right?
Your enthusiasm for their work and supporting them right now is infectious.
The fact that we get to wield these incredible tools that they are masters of, its inspiring.
WINQUIST: You asked about some of the invisible stuff that people wouldn’t notice.
That would have been different story.
It was a night shoot, big lighting rigs, balloons, everything else.
BALL: In one eight-hour shoot, we had to shoot that scene.
WINQUIST: So we went out there, gave it our best, shot things.
Our DP, Gyula [Pados], had lit the place and it looked awesome.
We planned this reshoot.
And so we did, and it worked great.
That scene came through really quickly, as well.
BALL: It was amazing.
So we didntshootthat scene, really.
We were on stage.
It was after Christmas, really late in the game.
That was last minute.
We didn’t have that scene in there for the longest time.
It’s not quite working.
Literally, this was, like, two months before we were supposed to deliver.
We had this one-and-a-half-minute-long scene we had to go shoot.
We have to have no backup plan if this doesn’t work.
So, we turned it over and Paul and the gang basically took it on like a champ.
It was down to the wire.
We had no time.
Usually, you’re working at the last frickin minute, and theyre pulling it out of my hands.
It was a testament to Danielles work here.
It just ran so frickin smoothly.
It wasn’t this violent thing.
We just drifted off and went our own ways.
The movie’s over and then go off on the release date.
It was a good experience.
WINQUIST: We had the opposite.
BALL: By the way, thats a cool story, too, frommylearning experience.
I could talk all night for this thing, guys.
It had this awesome shot of Koro coming out of the fire in Noas dream.
I was like, This looks amazing!
In the editing bay, me and the editor and all the guys were like, This is amazing.
I had no clue it could get better.
So, that was a learning experience for me.
They could tell, No, we could do better than this.
So, that recalibration for me was like a huge learning experience to see what’s possible.
I always remember that moment.
WINQUIST: Kind of realizing on the next one we’re going to be screwed.
BALL: Oh yeah.
Thank you for saying the next one because that can tee up my greedy question quite a bit.
Has there been any more forward momentum with another installment?
BALL: Yeah, we’re talking about it.
That’s all I can say, really.
But I’m greedy.
I’ve got multiple things that I’m playing with right now.
These movies, they’re some of the last thinking person’s blockbusters.
They’re big, giant Hollywood [movies], although, we made the for very cheap.
$160 million, guys?
That’s crazy compared to other movies that cost twice that.
Anyway, we could do some really, really special stuff, and we’re looking forward to that.
But there are other projects that are also in the wings, too.
What Is Wes Ball’s ‘Ruiner’?
I’ll be extra greedy and follow up on that.
Do you know what you’re going to jump into next?ZeldaorRuiner?
BALL: No!Ruineris actually very cool.
I was watching some gameplay.
BALL: My pitch was imagineLeon: The Profesionalin aBladerunneruniverse.
Its super cyberpunk, freaking aggressive, muscular.
I want to play in that world.
That’ll take its time.
Let’s just say the two things areZeldaand Apes.
That’s what I’m being greedy for right now.
I’ll take that answer.
I’m really proud of what I did there?
And again, I know it’s a team effort, but give yourself a little credit.
In terms of, I’ve never felt more supported by a crew than this movie.
So, right there, that tells me something.
We did something right.
So, I’m really pleased for the team that we were able to achieve that.
We were in post for over a year.
People feed off creative vision, and I was really proud of being part of that.
BALL: I’m proud of all of it.
It was quite a learning experience.
It’s my fourth movie, so I’ve got a lot to learn still.
I think most directors would probably say that.
When they feel like they made a perfect movie, they probably should just stop.
Whatever we do next, we’ll venture to do even better.
Kingdom of the Planet of the Apesis available on Hulu and Disney+ now.
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