‘The Rule of Jenny Pen’: Short Story vs. JAMES ASHCROFT: We’ve been very faithful to the short story.
That just allowed for more drama between these two men from different worlds.
I think it would have been perhaps a more dour perspective.
Image via Adam Martignetti
[Laughs]
GEOFFREY RUSH: And John Lithgows eyes.
ASHCROFT: That’s a great question.
We always had Geoffrey and John in the back of our minds.
RUSH: I wish you told me that 10 years.
ASHCROFT: Well, it’s like a fine wine.
It’s like, We can wait 10 years before we do this.
They’ll still be perfect!
So, it was always there.
I mean, the film in my head looks nothing like the film that you end up making.
Image via Shudder
It can’t; it doesn’t exist.
One more writing question, which admittedly might be a question for Owen [Marshall].
Why the name Jenny Pen?
RUSH: If I had known 10 years ago.
But he certainly knew the material.
So, we got together on Zoom.
Image via Warner Bros.Pictures
I knew on page five.
I just said to my agent, Get me into this film.
This is the role.
Image via Adam Martignetti
The whole style of it was just curious.
I just thought there was so much more going on in it.
Also, the challenge of, I love tasks with a character.
You know what I mean?
I loved learning my sword fights forPirates[of the Caribbean].
I loved learning to look as though I could play the piano accordion inThe Book Thief.
And this, I thought, You’re gonna spend the whole film in a wheelchair.
You’re reined in.
But my wheelchair had five little lights on the joystick from speed one to speed five.
They edited me very, very carefully.
I hope you share that blooper reel when the time is right!
RUSH: Yeah, it was fun.
“You best start believing in movie icons, Miss Turner.
Geoffrey Rush is one!”
I’ll stick with you for a moment, Geoffrey, to sing James’s praise a little.
RUSH: He’s very impish.
He’s a very good actor.
I kept telling my wife, James goes into little memetic moments when he’s describing something to you.
I’ll just fall out there, but the plate glass door was closed.
[Laughs] And James did his father hitting the wall.
So,he likes the visual dynamics of performance.
Find some play within the line.
And Mortensen is a man of language, which is diminishing because of his condition.
One of the interviewers this morning pointed out, he said, Why the poetry in the film?
I had to use language because I was immobile for most of the film or running into people.
Those would be the first.
RUSH: His early work!
[Laughs]
ASHCROFT: John’s earlier work.
Despots even back then.
Initially, as an actor, I want to be like them.
Characters we would have wanted to have played or roles for actors that we want to work with.
“You’re a very rude young woman.
What about when you hit set with them?
ASHCROFT: I got that before getting on set from both of them.
There’s overlap there already.
And that, for a director going onto a set, that’s incredibly empowering.
It was always very playful, always very fluid.
I know that’s an experience I can’t necessarily count on always having.
But yeah, it was like playtime every day.
Geoffrey, I did want to ask you about working with John.
RUSH: I worked with him.
That was 21 years ago.
And I’ve sort of run into John a lot in New York.
And then we met at the Emmys at some point.
So, we touch base a fair bit.
I know how John works.
He can really claim his territory.
He squirts his scent all over the set.
[Laughs] No, he doesn’t.
You know what I mean?
It was just creepy.
And there was a discovery I made about the book.
Owen, the writer, its like Dickens can create great names for characters Uriah Heep or Mr. Macawber.
I thought “Crealy” was really creepy smashed together.
Its a nasty name.
James, there’s one particular thing I was wondering if there was much meaning in.
Why does Crealy take Jenny Pen off at certain moments, but not others?
And then there are those moments where Crealy is just enjoying himself.
He’s drunk on a moment, a personal moment.
So it was always at the end of the day, it’s Crealy.
I wanted to go back to the idea of play.
Can you tell me which scene changed the most from script to screen because of that willingness to play?
Perhaps a time when you found unexpected magic in the moment?
RUSH: We did the scene where he sort of terrorizes me by brutally kicking me.
There was one little wisp of a stage direction in there.
Am I losing focus and control?
I went, No, no, no, no, no.
And we just went [nervously chuckles].
It’s nervous laughter.
ASHCROFT: That was a significant day.
I remember that very well.
Let’s stretch it out, or condense and pressurize.
Frost, who stars and wrote the film, takes his family on a violent and humorous trip.
ASHCROFT: I absolutely love Gretchen’s work.
This was the first time we worked together.
We knew each other socially prior.
Where is it most potent?
I don’t like working with yes people.
So, you ask was there a specific moment?
On a daily basis, yes, there was.
I wanted to see to it to end our conversation on two particular questions.
They’re both from your director’s statement.
James, you said, I don’t shy away from what others call dark material.
RUSH: In our first Zoom chat, we got to talking, and I loved the script.
The script was so vivid and challenging in the tasks that are presented.
And then I think we talked about favorite films.
I said, I’d love to know what your favorite films are.
He sent me maybe a list of about 80, I think.
It was quite substantial, wasn’t it?
And Venn diagram overlap.
All of those are on my list.
He’s a big Joan Crawford, isn’t he?
He’s a tall Joan Crawford.
No, we wanted to keep that in the back of our minds, that it is Grand Guignol.
Do you know what I mean?
And I said, How are you going to cast those people?
And he said, I’m gonna ask all of my mentors.
They all came back and just said, We’ll go with you.
I always found her curious because I thought, I can’t place where you’re from.
She was very sweet.
She claimed that moment.
She just went into its complete state of Gene Pitney bliss, painting heaven.
And it’s shot so low.
They’re all so low in the water.
Then John comes in and just fills negative space, and it’s really freaky.
ASHCROFT: Yeah, absolutely.
RUSH: You were a child star!
ASHCROFT: Well, I was a child actor for a moment.
It’s something you said in your director’s statement when talking about how Geoffrey and John work.
They love to laugh.
They enjoy themselves and relish everything they do no matter how extreme.
I’m gonna keep this simple.
For each of you, can you tell me which day on this set brought you the most joy?
Every day had something going for it.
We spent four weeks on location in an old resort, and that became the home.
I really liked when we had everyone on set.
So, the dining room scenes.
He was so detailed, and I didn’t have to act.
I thought, He is a bit crazy.
There wasnt any acting.
ASHCROFT: No, he did go there.
He went there very quickly.
RUSH: So that kind of thing would happen.
Now, that wasverydisciplined, the day before, how the stunt would work.
The stunt guy would be there.
And you go, Oh dear, this is like drama school.
I can’t move because I’m still on the stick, I’m out of the chair.
I thought, He’s gonna choose the best bit.
I don’t know.
And she said, I can tell inside you were laughing a bit.
It was a talking point.
Meanwhile, it playsveryeffectively in the film.
It’s a horrible moment.
He gave us good things to do.
James, do you have an example of a moment of joy on this set?
RUSH: They reminded me so much of older actors that I’ve worked with in Australia who weremymentors.
I very much understand that.
So, just that image there.
The Rule of Jenny Penwill be available to stream on Shudder in 2025.